Dr. Tyler Reid, co-founder and CTO of Xona House Programs, discusses a brand new sort of world navigation satellite tv for pc system (GNSS). Xona House Programs plans to offer centimeter-level positioning accuracy and can serve the rising autonomous car neighborhood, the place exact navigation is essential. Reid discusses the benefits and technical challenges of a low Earth orbit (LEO) resolution.
Tyler Reid
Tyler Reid is co-founder and CTO of Xona House Programs. Beforehand, Tyler labored as a Analysis Engineer on the Ford Motor Firm in localization and mapping for self-driving automobiles. He has additionally labored as an engineer at Google and as a lecturer at Stanford College, the place he co-taught the GPS course. Tyler acquired his PhD (2017) and MSc (2012) in Aeronautics and Astronautics from Stanford and B.Eng. (’10) in Mechanical Engineering from McGill.
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transcript
lilly: Howdy and welcome to the Robohub podcast. Would you thoughts introducing your self?
Tyler: Howdy and thanks once more for having me on right this moment. So I’m Tyler Reid and I’m co-founder and CTO of Xona House Programs.
lilly: And might you inform us slightly bit about Xona House Programs?
Tyler: Yeah, for positive. So Xona House Programs is an organization centered on, principally constructing business GPS satellites.
So actually transferring away from the mannequin of, you already know, these type of authorities operated techniques like GPS which have a type of very particular, you already know, authorities oriented mission. Shifting in direction of a system that’s, you already know, commercially pushed round type of wants of economic customers and, you already know, going extra in that route to form of help these customers going ahead.
lilly: And what do you suppose are form of the advantages of going business with a GPS sort expertise?
Tyler: Yeah, for positive. So to talk slightly bit about my background and form of the place a few of that is coming from. So, so I form of got here from the world of, you already know, GPS and began actually in grad college on that aspect of issues.
And transitioned after grad college to working in type of trade analysis. So I used to be working in autonomous automobiles, working with these techniques and type of seeing these techniques actually closely depend on, on GPS and type of what’s on the market right this moment. And actually the cutting-edge of the expertise was, you already know, having third social gathering corporations principally ship correction data for the GPS satellite tv for pc.
So the data coming from GPS straight was actually not fairly on the stage that it must be to help these, you already know, techniques like self-driving which might be actually attempting to get all the way down to the centimeter stage location to, to, you already know, drive themselves on the street. and so to get to that stage, you had type of these corporations whose complete type of position was to ship, you already know, higher orbit, higher clock data than what GPS provides you straight to actually drive these errors all the way down to that type of that centimeter stage.
And due to the way in which the system was architected, which actually wasn’t, you already know, meant for use this manner, it led to. you already know, the fragilities in that type of sign. So while you begin to drive below bushes or in sure environments, you’d typically lose that type of centimeter stage location. And it simply, it form of left some, I suppose, holes to be crammed by, by one thing else.
And what that’s one thing else was was, was a part of my job to determine, okay. You already know, was it possibly terrestrial based mostly resolution? Is it laptop imaginative and prescient resolution is a type of the entire above. And, you already know, with my background coming from, you already know, satellite tv for pc navigation and GPS and type of seeing how these techniques have supported, you already know, some security, essential functions like civil aviation, which is, you already know, a part of what my type of, the thesis work was in and type of fascinated with how that would evolve to help, you already know, a few of these floor techniques like autonomous automobiles, but in addition uAVs and, and type of different form of,form of autonomous techniques going ahead, that form of actually led to this.
Okay, properly, how can we modify issues on the area aspect fairly than simply attempting to make use of what we now have from these type of authorities techniques to, to form of, you already know, fill the gaps, I suppose. And so from a, from a business perspective, you already know, what are among the advantages that you just get there? Effectively, actually you’re not tied to type of the, the system that, that the federal government gives for you, which, you already know, is type of static. It’s there for a motive. And it, you already know, it’s actually a improbable system and it, it helps billions of customers. It has created type of all, you already know, all these use instances that we, you already know, I’ve, I’ve a horrible sense of route.
So, you already know, understanding type of the blue dot to seek out my manner house has, has been, you already know, extremely helpful. However, you already know, as we take into consideration transferring away from, you already know, people who can. use that data to form of get near the place they should go after which type of end the job themselves and, and going in direction of autonomous techniques that basically depend on that blue dot being, you already know, precisely proper the place it’s to, to, to actually get to that time form of on their very own, with none enter from, from any people.
There actually is form of that there’s form of a leap that should occur there by way of, you already know, The sorts of ranges of, reliability and in addition, you already know, precision that, that these techniques help. And so fascinated with this from type of the business perspective, you already know, what are you able to present and, and changing into type of from an aerospace background, you already know, how are you going to, you already know, evolve this area section to actually be centered on the, on the business aspect.
And so. Among the advantages. There’s you, you simply, you already know, you will have type of a clean slate in a way. And so you can begin with, you already know, what do we actually must help customers on the bottom? After which we will begin to architect the system, you already know, round a few of these, you already know, rising wants fairly than, you already know, supporting issues from in many years, previously, I suppose.
lilly: And by way of like attending to that centimeter stage accuracy do you suppose that many of the technological developments are within the area aspect or like, do you propose on doing does Xona area techniques plan on doing a number of that error correction, like comparable error correction sort stuff and like the complete stack?
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a terrific query. And I’ll say in some sense, we’re not inventing, we’re not reinventing the wheel. We’re form of, you already know, we’re utilizing a number of the strategies that’s been properly established by the form of excessive precision GNSS trade, which has supported traditionally [00:05:00] issues like surveying issues like mapping, precision agriculture, you already know, are large customers of, of this sort of expertise.
And so actually type of constructing on the shoulders of giants in, in that respect. You already know, how, how are of us getting excessive precision right this moment and type of, you already know, evolving that to kinda the following, the following type of, you already know, what would possibly the following form of, area infrastructure seem like to, to make use of these strategies and type of make them even higher for people.
And so, you already know, while you take a look at the type of errors that stack up in GPS, you’ve obtained. The ambiance is an enormous one, you already know, as these alerts refract by means of the completely different layers of the ambiance, significantly the ionosphere and troposphere, you already know, that that’s a, an error that form of manifests itself on the consumer stage, but in addition simply the orbit and clock data coming from the satellite tv for pc, as a result of in the end you’re triangulating your place from, you already know, just a few completely different factors in area.
You higher know very properly what these factors had been, cuz in any other case you’re not gonna know very properly. What, what your place is on the finish of the day. So you need to determine a technique to get, you already know, centimeter stage, you already know, orbital data of the GPS satellite tv for pc, with the intention to in flip form of get your place to the form of centimeter stage as properly.
And so how do you try this with form of, you already know, as we take into consideration this sort of evolving from, you already know, the type of, the strategies which have been used previously to, you already know, what could be attainable, sooner or later? Effectively, it seems that one of many large type of inputs to that system, When it comes to how shortly you will get from type of meter stage place all the way down to type of the centimeter stage is how shortly the satellites transfer overhead.
And it seems that in the event you make it such that the satellites transfer overhead in a short time, there’s simply much more data in that form of very fast go than you will have from these additional satellites, which historically are type of medium earth orbit to assist that convergence get you from type of a tens of minutes type of place to a minute or much less type of place. And, and naturally there are strategies which might be making that all the time higher on a regular basis from a medium earth orbit perspective. You already know, while you’re utilizing type of the standard GSS satellites to, to get to that top precision, there are strategies evolving to, to get there sooner and sooner.
However when you’ve got that very quick form of movement throughout the sky, it simply makes these strategies even higher than that they’d be in any other case. And in order that’s, that’s, that’s an instance of the type of factor you are able to do from a, you already know, business area section perspective to, to simply form of convey extra functionality to, to of us on the bottom.
lilly: And so when you’ve got, in the event you get higher efficiency from having transferring automobiles, and so that you’re having them at decrease orbits, you additionally want like three or so to get your place does having greater than that assist? And what number of, like what number of whole satellites do you suppose is gonna be the correct amount?
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a very good query.
What it comes all the way down to is, you already know, the extra satellites, the higher , that’s type of the straightforward query, the straightforward reply there, however mm-hmm, actually we’re, you already know, actually leveraging an identical method that’s been used from, from GPS, which is called trilateration.. And what that’s, is there’s principally 4 unknowns in that system and the 4 unknowns or your X, Y, Zed (or sorry, that’s Canadian – XYZ) and, and time, and, and the rationale time is form of an uncertainty there may be that the way in which you calculate vary to the completely different satellites is that the satellite tv for pc sends a sign and the sign principally says it was this time once I despatched it, the sign takes a while for it to journey to you. You obtain it a while later.
And so the distinction between the time it was despatched and the time you acquired it’s the, principally the time of flight of the sign. And, and that point multiplied by the pace of sunshine is, is the vary to the satellite tv for pc. So, in the event you try this to a number of satellites, now you’ve calculated one thing that appears like a spread to you as a result of it’s, you already know, that, that point of flight to a handful of satellites, you’d consider, you already know, in 3d area, you want, you will have three satellites, three unknown, you already know, XYZ place.
You already know, what’s the, what’s that fourth unknown, you already know, why do you will have that additional unknown there? And that’s since you don’t know precisely what time it’s while you acquired it, you acquired it at some native time, which is, you already know, no matter time your telephone says, however you already know, how, how correct is that on the finish of the.
Tyler: And while you consider the sensitivity of the issue of how correct you actually need to know your time to do to calculate these ranges? Effectively, it seems. One nanosecond of time, uncertainty is, is a foot or 30 centimeter. And so it stacks up very, in a short time while you’re speaking about type of nanosecond of, of time data, and it’s very laborious to, to keep up nanosecond form of timing in your telephone.
Your time, time in your telephone is extra on the type of microsecond stage. More often than not, that’s type of the place it must be to, to do its job, which is type of telecommunications and all these items. However in the event you’re speaking about doing precision ranging. You really want that type of nanosecond type of functionality.
And so fairly than, you already know, having to convey an atomic clock with you on a regular basis to form of preserve your time at that form of, you already know, very excessive, exact stage, you simply remedy for it as an alternative. So that you add a fourth satellite tv for pc and now, you already know, you get the three dimensions and that point dimension to, to get your place form of all the way down to, you already know, our expertise right this moment is extra type of at that meter stage, however you already know, that form of handful of nanosecond type of uncertainty type of level. And so, you already know, going, in order that type of minimal quantity it’s worthwhile to get some type of place data is, is 4. It does assume you haven’t any different [00:10:00] sensors or, or nothing else like that.
So in the event you simply type of solely have your type of GPS receiver and nothing else 4 satellites is type of the naked quantity it’s worthwhile to, to get that first place. so you already know, what number of extra do it’s worthwhile to do the job? Effectively, properly, you need extra than simply 4 to type of be sturdy to that. And, and the reason being, is you begin form of transferring round on the planet.
You, it’s possible you’ll not all the time have international view in the event you type of have, you’re assuming you will have full view of the sky, all it takes is a constructing to dam one a part of the sky and also you solely have three. So you actually wanna design that system to, you already know, have greater than 4 in view always that you just had been on earth.
So that you just’re sturdy and issues like buildings being in the way in which, bushes being in the way in which. you already know, additionally simply, typically it’s, you already know, you’re gonna have simply one thing, that’s gonna offer you increased precision when you’ve got much more satellites in view, trigger you will have extra measurements out there to you and.
The the correct of quantity that the majority, I suppose I’ll say GNSS techniques have come to right this moment is extra at that type of 10 or 12 variety of satellites in view. And that’s what GPS has right this moment. That’s what the European Galileo system has right this moment. And so type of in addition to the, the Russian, sorry, the Russian GLONASS, and Chinese language Beidou techniques are, are type of in that comparable variety of satellites.
And so. Tenish or so satellite tv for pc is about the place you need be type of at minimal and the extra satellites you need to simply higher, it’s gonna work in additional locations, I suppose.
lilly: Mm-hmm if it’s 10 or 12, like seen out of your system without delay, I assume they don’t have protection of all over the place unexpectedly for the complete constructed out constellation.
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a terrific query. And so when, while you’re speaking about type of the GPS system, which is deployed in a medium Earth orbit, which is about 20,000 kilometer altitudeor so. That system has about 30 satellites to realize that purpose. In order that’s about what number of satellites that while you deploy form of on the excessive orbit that you just want. We’re focusing on a decrease orbit than that right this moment, which is extra type of within the thousand kilometer vary..
So, so being that 20 instances nearer to earth, it seems that satellite tv for pc footprint simply shrinks and shrinks and shrinks. Trigger you’re simply a lot nearer to, to earth. And so that you want extra satellites to get the identical quantity of protection. So we’re focusing on a few 300 satellite tv for pc constellation or so.
lilly: OK. talking in regards to the time of flight measurements, is there any, like, would you contemplate and what are the benefits and downsides of, as an alternative of doing the a method time of flight and having to maintain monitor of all that synchronization with doing form of a two-way ranging, the place your system is the one pinging?
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a terrific query. And, and this was one of many unique trades that was performed when of us had been growing GPS. And so some individuals smarter than me had, had put a number of thought into, you already know, why you would possibly. Do this sort of system over say this sort of two-way time switch system.
Yeah. And among the benefits there, the primary one is actually that in case your system has to ping again to the satellite tv for pc, it does two issues and considered one of them is that it, it, it’s an even bigger energy draw in your system as a result of your system is having to type of ship a radio sign {that a} satellite tv for pc has to obtain.
And in order that that’s one piece. And the opposite piece of it’s that the satellites then additionally should, have the ability to obtain all these alerts from a number of customers. And so you find yourself placing a constraint on the capability of the satellite tv for pc within the sense that now that satellite tv for pc has to get pings again from all these of us which might be utilizing it, possibly only some hundred or just a few thousand individuals without delay can use it, which is, it finally ends up being type of a limiter on the variety of of us who can really use that system.
Whereas in the event you use this sort of a method time switch system, the place though you do want form of an additional satellite tv for pc in view to unravel the issue. You may in principle form of, you already know, help an infinite variety of customers. And so, which is the case of GPS right this moment, the place we see it supporting, you already know, billions of customers and you’ll, you already know, add as many units as you need with out having that constraint.
In order that, that that’s the massive one.
lilly: Yeah, that is smart. So if you’re at this decrease orbit and GPS satellites, The standard authorities funded ones nonetheless exist above you. Can you utilize them to raised monitor your satellites?
Tyler: Yeah. completely. And that turns into one of many inputs, to the system, for positive.
As a result of, and people have performed a number of stuff in, in low Earth orbit, supported by GPS as a result of a part of the service quantity of, of these GPS is to help functions in decrease orbit. So you possibly can consider earth imagery, the worldwide area station, all these varieties of oldsters are, are utilizing that. That being mentioned, we’re designing the system to be GPS impartial.
Simply because there’s a number of curiosity from that from of us to have that functionality, you’re not essentially totally depending on, you already know, this different system that you just’re augmenting having some potential to form of function, with out enter from that system is, is advantageous in some methods, however it’s there and it’s a nice enter to the system that, that we’re placing collectively.
Tyler: And so it is smart to, to incorporate these measurements a manner of simply making the system extra sturdy on the finish of the day.
For a consumer, like for the common individual with a telephone, will the GPS receiver that I have already got on my telephone work together with your system instantly? Or are there adjustments that should be made?
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a very good query too. And it, there’ll doubtless should be adjustments to, to the system in your telephone right this moment, however we see that as a part of the form of pure evolution of how the GNSS chip units are evolving and. One among our, I suppose our basic method to this isn’t to compete with the GNSS receiver producers it’s to work with them, to include [00:15:00] our service into their units.
And, and so actually working to, you already know, make it, make that form of adoption as just like what say including among the new constellations which have come on-line over time is like, so, you already know, initially there was solely GPS chips after which there was GPS plus BLONASS chips, after which there GPS plus Galileo plus BLONASS plus Beidou chips.
And so actually attempting to type. Proceed that evolution of together with a few of these, these new techniques into these chip units. And so working with the, the GNSS receiver producers for probably the following era of units, as a result of significantly the type of ASIC units that you just discover in your telephone are, are so optimized for a selected software that becoming in new issues is, is an enormous problem. For among the extra, I’ll say, this, form of, excessive efficiency receivers which might be on the market right this moment which might be supporting among the excessive precision functions on that aspect of issues, that there’s some, risk of, having that be extra akin to a, a software program replace than,than form of a brand new system.
lilly: Fascinating. I wished to pivot slightly bit and discuss extra about, a few of your work with autonomous automobiles and at like, there’s clearly a transparent, like interface between these two issues, however what are among the similarities and variations by way of like the way you really are fixing technical issues or the autonomy on the automobiles and the autonomy on the satellites or any of that type of factor?
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a terrific query. So I’ll say half, possibly I’ll, I’ll take. Give slightly little bit of historical past of form of the place among the, I suppose, form of my time in autonomous car form of led to this curiosity in form of pursuing this sort of satellite tv for pc navigation aspect. so once I entered the type of autonomous car realm and I used to be working at Ford motor firm on the time, a part of my position at that at the moment was form of a mixture of expertise scouting and basic analysis .
In expertise scouting, it was actually working with the startups, significantly in Silicon valley, but in addition different expertise corporations as properly, to actually set up, you already know, what’s the cutting-edge in, you already know, location and mapping applied sciences for. At first was, you already know, centered on type of these stage 4 stage 5 totally autonomous automobiles, however it was additionally form of supporting among the stage two stage three type of, driver help techniques as properly.
And form of as soon as establishing that type of the place, what the state of they’re, the expertise was a part of that and form of, attempting to determine which of them had been among the market leaders was to ascertain, you already know, what are the necessities for these techniques in the end, and which one is type of closest to the place the necessities ultimately must be.
So, you already know, what are the situation necessities for, for autonomy? And that turned out to be a, a a lot tougher query than I feel we initially thought, I feel of us had been like, oh, you already know, 10 centimeters appears to be the correct quantity, however it was typically type of unjustified. It was form of a ten centimeter appears to be a quantity the place the system fails the least.
In order that looks like place to start out. However we wished to type of take a step again and say, okay, basically, you already know, what do these automobiles really want by way of, you already know, a bounding field, in the event you wanna consider it that manner round a car to say, okay, that is the situational consciousness that I want to do that, this sort of household of duties or this sort of household of duties.
And actually what it turns into is there’s some functions the place it’s worthwhile to know what street you’re on. Some functions it’s worthwhile to know what lane you’re in. And a few functions we actually must know, you already know, to the centimeter, to have the ability to steer the automobile inside the lane and type of, you already know, get to the place you’re going.
And it turned out that, you already know, seeing type of the place, the place the necessities in the end wanted to go and type of the place the cutting-edge expertise was. There was no less than in my thoughts, very a lot a niche of, you already know, the place, the place issues, form of stood right this moment. And that led to the motivation, no less than from, from my aspect to say, okay, properly, what’s one thing we will do from the infrastructure aspect to assist fill that hole?
As a result of one of many tendencies that was taking place within the autonomous car trade, no less than within the time once I was, was there was. You already know, the, the type of variety of sensors, the quantity of compute on the automobiles was making these automobiles in some sense, prohibitively costly. You already know, you had a lot {hardware} on the automobiles, the automobiles had been type of these type of million greenback, very specialised type of automobiles.
It simply didn’t scale that properly, whereas in the event you can offload a few of that to the infrastructure aspect, to help numerous automobiles, You already know, that appeared to make extra sense to me no less than. And, and so this went again to, okay, properly, what, you already know, being type of somebody from an aerospace background, place, navigation background, considering, okay, properly, what can we do from an area, infrastructure aspect to help this sort of place navigation and, and time drawback.
Tyler: And so I feel by way of, you already know, the place these two issues are, are form of coming collectively is, is actually seeing this from a okay, how can the, this infrastructure help the wants of these techniques? There are, after all, some, some crossover between the 2 within the sense that there are applied sciences which might be, I feel gonna be used on each within the sense that, you already know, you need these satellites while you’re deploying a big constellation to have, you already know, a excessive diploma of autonomy about themselves by way of fault monitoring by way of integrity monitoring.
As a result of in the end you’re attempting to. You already know, help these, you already know, security, essential techniques within the, within the case of automotive. And so having the, you already know, a number of that type of fault checking, form of performed in an autonomous manner. In order that be caught in a short time, it turns into essential, however there’s additionally simply basic issues like, you already know, basically a car when it’s doing its navigation and positioning is operating [00:20:00] one thing like a Kalman filter or some one thing that’s combining these measurements.
These sorts of issues are gonna be operating on, on the satellites for orbit willpower. So it’s a special context of drawback, however you already know, basically an identical device in, in the long run of the day. And there’s additionally some parts of, I feel, collaborative, you already know, infrastructure as properly. So while you consider, you already know, self-driving automobile driving by itself with an entire bunch of sensors on it, properly, that’s.
You’re type of simply attempting to switch one human in a automobile. Perhaps that’s not the easiest way to do it. Perhaps there’s some benefits to having automobiles work collectively in a collaborative manner the place, you already know, a car that’s maybe down the street from you possibly can share sensor data or situational consciousness data with the intention to set up that situational consciousness, you already know, on the metropolis stage the place you possibly can see round corners, see aroundyou know, different obstacles you could’t see to type of get to the purpose the place you’re driving as safely, as you already know, all of the people mixed on the street, fairly than type of only one human can solely see one a part of the view of the world. And so I feel there’s a component of that that may discover its manner into the, the area type of the area and type of floor segments that help these type of area techniques going ahead.
Y know, how can these techniques work collectively to seek out faults in one another the place you already know, these, these sorts of concepts that I feel are, are fascinating as properly.
lilly: Yeah. that’s a very good level. And I’m slightly in listening to extra about this concept of getting the satellites collaborate and form of what are probably the most technically difficult or technically promising parts of that.
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a terrific query as properly. There’s, I’ll say there’s quite a bit taking place in, within the area trade now, I feel even in comparison with, you already know, even 5 or 10 years in the past that they actually make a number of this attainable. And you already know, one of many large ones is simply the dimensions of the constellations being deployed as of late.
And I feel that that’s enabled by. A couple of issues just like the decrease value of entry to area, you already know, SpaceX is I feel one of many extra seen gamers there, however there are after all others and the opposite is simply, you already know, completely different satellite tv for pc manufacturing strategies. So constructing satellites extra such as you would construct a automobile on an meeting line fairly than type of these bespoke type of one satellite tv for pc’s in a room the place you will have a bunch of individuals type of placing stuff on it.
It’s a fairly, it’s only a completely different mannequin of, of assembling this stuff. And. Once we take a look at the sorts of applied sciences that I feel are, are form of coming into that form of satellite tv for pc realm which might be possibly even borrowed from locations like automotive, the place, you already know, particularly while you’re speaking about meeting and, and testing, you already know, making one thing that’s, you already know, very sturdy in, in type of excessive volumes that.
Type of brings this stuff collectively. I feel that, that that’s no less than one instance of, you already know, I feel the place these two industries can study from one another, I suppose. Uh, okay. So I feel so far as, you already know, autonomy on the satellites and the flexibility to form of collaborate with one another, I feel one of many large, the, one of many large elements of that’s the potential for the satellites to simply discuss to one another, to start with. And so the flexibility to form of go data.
Between satellites is, is I feel a, an enormous milestone form of as a part of that. And I feel one of many enabling applied sciences there that we’re, that we’ve seen form of come to mild is the, this potential of type of having inter satellite tv for pc communication hyperlinks between these satellites. And there’s been a number of, I feel development of in each optical and radio, type of,you already know, intersatellite hyperlinks between that to go that data round.
And I feel that, that, I imply step one to collaboration as it’s an automotive as properly, it’s simply establishing I feel that that’s customary and in addition the form of potential for this stuff to go data between one another. I feel there’s definitely been challenges in automotive on that aspect with, with establishing requirements, with issues like vehicle-to-things, so V2 V to X, so car -to-stuff, or different car type of communication hyperlinks and establishing simply, you already know, what’s the spectrum that we shared? What’s the protocols for these type of communications? And I feel it’s, it’s one factor to do it in a type of. You already know, if one say automotive OEM decides to do it a sure manner they usually can try this between all their automobiles.
It’s one other to do it form of throughout automobiles of all completely different producers, form of in a standardized manner. And so I feel that that’s that’s one of many challenges is simply form of establishing, establishing form of the expertise and the type of requirements for that communication throughout, throughout satellites.
And naturally, as we take into consideration deploying our system, we expect largely of form of communication between the satellites that we now have. Nevertheless it’s fascinating to consider, you already know, potential, you already know, cross form of, communication between different platforms as properly.
lilly: Yeah. And do you propose on, do you anticipate having optical or RF cross hyperlinks or each in your system?
Tyler: Yeah, I feel that’s one thing that we’re exploring. So I feel it’s one thing that’s on the desk, however I feel that we’re nonetheless in, we’re on the section proper now the place we now have deployed our first demonstration satellite tv for pc. And so for the demonstration satellite tv for pc, it has, I’ll say one thing that’s akin to, you already know, inter satellite tv for pc hyperlink, which we’re exploring between this, our form of second launch that’s coming, subsequent 12 months.
And so. That’s one thing that we’re exploring as a part of the long run deployment of the system, however the form of earlier iterations could, it might not be required. So it’s, it’s one thing that we’re exploring and it’s one thing we’re maintaining a tally of, however, it it’s possibly not essentially one thing that’s basically essential to the system working.
lilly: Effectively, congratulations in your first launch and your upcoming second launch. I wished to pivot slightly bit extra really, and listen to a bit about, a few of your [00:25:00] analysis again while you had been within the academia and like how that led into, each your autonomous car and your present jobs.
Tyler: Yeah, that’s a, yeah, that brings me again
So to return to, I suppose my days as a grad pupil. So, the lab that I labored in was the GPS analysis lab at Stanford college. And it was a very nice atmosphere for me. It was one which centered, you already know, very a lot on that type of place navigation drawback, but in addition one which centered slightly bit on, you already know, operational initiatives for the FAA, in addition to we had been working with the federal aviation administration.
You already know, help these type of security, essential techniques, you already know, plane utilizing GPS to land plane utilizing GPS in flight. so, you already know, fascinated with issues about, you already know, what are security essential use instances of place navigation and time particularly in transportation. And on this case, it was supporting civil aviation.
And in order that was a very, that was a very fascinating atmosphere for me, since you might see the work that you just’re doing straight impacting that trade. In some variety of years, it wasn’t that the grad college students had been engaged on issues, you already know, straight type of in operation, however that it wasn’t too distant from type of essentially seeing the lifetime of operation.
So I feel from a, you already know, how that led into type of the, the work that I used to be doing, type of within the autonomous car world. I feel that fascinated with the issue of, you already know, what are the type of ranges of situational consciousness that automobiles want by way of place navigation and time, you already know, what’s the stage of type of security and integrity that these techniques want?
Actually utilizing that type of framework in a structured technique to develop, you already know, what would possibly that framework seem like in automotive, which was type of new to that concept of getting place and knowledge as a part of that type of security, essential enter to, you already know, steering the car and, you already know, type of preserving the human partially within the loop or completely within the loop, that are type of issues that aviation had form of labored by means of as a result of there are occasions the place the plane will fly itself.
There are occasions the place the plane type of has the pilot within the. So it’s, you already know, fascinated with these sorts of issues in that framework. And I feel that that, that type of aspect of issues straight led to the work that we did in form of establishing, you already know, what could be the framework and necessities for these automobiles going ahead.
You already know, fascinated with this in type of a civil aviation method, as a result of. And while you evaluate the numbers, you already know, civil aviation actually has the very best monitor file you could provide you with by way of security and, you already know, per miles traveled with people and type of all these by all metrics. It’s it’s manner safer to sit down at an airplane than it’s to sit down in a automobile that that was that’s typically the, the takeaway and a part of that’s the properly that people have quite a bit much less people in automobiles have quite a bit much less coaching than people in plane who’re working these issues.
And so it’s a. That that’s simply basically a type of variations. And, and, and a part of that’s, is that if one thing goes mistaken in an plane, such as you higher know what to do shortly, whereas one thing goes mistaken in a automobile, you possibly can pull off to the aspect of the street. And so, and so simply basically some, some variations there, however I feel that that’s, that’s one of many large ones I feel was, you already know, bringing a few of that framework from, you already know, aviation to automotive and fascinated with these, these issues in that manner.
And the opposite aspect of that was the type of. You already know, the type of business GPS and GNSS aspect of that. So, you already know, transitioning from, you already know, You already know, the federal government system that helps, you already know, all these billions of units and created all this sort of, you already know, financial growth and type of all these developments, and fascinated with how which may evolve type of within the so-called type of new area age, which is the age while you consider issues like SpaceX and, you already know, these type of gamers which have actually challenged the form of so-called conventional aerospace, which is, extra the type of, you already know, while you consider that as type of these longer timelines, very threat opposed type of gamers. And, and, you already know, fascinated with how, how would possibly a few of these type of new strategies or new approaches in area, fascinated with these type of mega constellations which might be being proposed by, on the time they had been being proposed, it didn’t but exist. So we’re speaking about type of Starlink and OneWeb and you already know, all these type of gamers, which appeared type of like science fiction on the time, this was type of within the 2015 type of period earlier than a number of these items launched something or had been deployed.
These had been all type of concepts on. you already know, a few of that work was form of the basic, okay, properly, what would possibly you have the ability to do with one thing like this? If, if these type of satellites really come to exist, if the launch prices really come down, you already know, what could be some functionality that you can leverage from that type of area infrastructure?
So in the event you might deploy one thing like that for place navigation and time, you already know, what would possibly that seem like? What would possibly the capabilities be? However I feel at that time it was type of a okay, properly that, that’s an fascinating drawback, however, It was in some sense, missing motivation. It was form of a, okay, properly, who desires this?
You already know, what do we want this for? GPS works very well. Each, I feel on the time it was like, properly, we’ve performed it. You already know, GPS is in everybody’s pocket. What else might you need? And, and it wasn’t till I, I labored in an trade the place GPS, because it stood, wasn’t fairly sufficient for, for what they wanted that I form of these dots related at no less than on my aspect to, to see, okay, properly possibly this sort of method might help this different aspect as properly.
So in some sense, you already know, there’s, I suppose studying from each side and type of related this stuff collectively, I suppose.
lilly: Yeah, that makes [00:30:00] sense. It’s very fascinating to listen to the way it all connects. we’re arising on time, however I do have one final query. which is, are there different business gamers attempting to get into the GNSS area?
Like, do you will have any actual rivals proper now?
Tyler: Oh, there, positive. There’s undoubtedly of us on the market. So we’re not the one ones doing this. I feel that they’re, I gained’t identify all of them by identify. Trigger I, I can’t communicate to everybody’s plans on the market, however I can communicate to a, just a few basic tendencies that, that we’ve seen.
And one is that, you already know, the, the oldsters on the market who’re constructing these type of mega constellations for communication functions. So, you already know, the web from the sky type of of us are undoubtedly eager about offering one thing. I feel that it, it seems to be very completely different from, from what we’re working in direction of, which is extra of a , you already know, particular excessive efficiency, you already know, GNSS, P and T type of service, which seems to be quite a bit like what you have already got in your telephone by way of chip set, by way of these sorts of, you already know, antenna, these varieties of things. If you take a look at among the, you already know, the communication, techniques, you already know, actually they’re a very completely different frequency bands.
Their consumer terminals are often fairly giant as a result of we want a fairly large antenna to form of, full the hyperlink price range to get the type of information charges that they’re speaking about. It, it they’re, they’re definitely fascinated with it, however I feel that, you already know, their main purpose is actually, you already know, communication, however it’s form of a, oh, we will, you already know, we now have this technique, we will most likely help some type of navigation as properly.
At the very least that’s what we’ve seen to this point. So I feel that that’s, that’s one of many rivals on the market. When it comes to others, we’ve seen some fascinating stuff happening from really one of many main, automotive OEMs on the market, which is a Chinese language firm known as Geely. They’re really constructing and deploying their very own constellation, which is actually to help autonomous automotive actions. It’s, you already know, communication navigation type of multi function bundle. And in order that’s, you already know, seems to be, you already know, one of many large, one of many large gamers on the market. And so there there’s definitely another corporations as properly. There are some established companies on the market right this moment, for instance, from Iridium, which is offering some P and T companies right this moment.
And there are different satellite tv for pc companies offering extra correction companies. So issues which might be correcting, offering further data to form of praise the GPS sign, however not an extra, you already know, form of ranging or GPS sign itself. In order that’s, I feel one of many, one of many main variations there.
Tyler: So, and we, we, and I feel since we’ve been doing this, we’ve seen some others, another corporations form of suggest some comparable issues as properly. So I feel we’re, it seems to be that, issues are heading on this route, I suppose.
lilly: Effectively, yeah, it’s undoubtedly an thrilling area to be in an thrilling time.
And. A extremely fascinating concept. Thanks a lot for talking with me.
Tyler: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks once more for, for the invitation to talk right here right this moment. And, yeah, this was nice dialogue.
transcript
tags: Enterprise, c-House, cx-House, PNT, podcast, Robotics expertise, area, startup
Lilly Clark
